Exclusive Interview
Love’s in Session: Inside Jasmine Guillory’s First Queer Romance ‘Flirting Lessons’
Like any romance reader with a pulse, we’ve all been waiting for Jasmine Guillory’s first queer romance, Flirting Lessons, with bated breath. The new novel centers around Avery, a bisexual fresh off the heels of a breakup, and Taylor, the heartbreaker of the lesbian community, first introduced in Drunk on Love.
When the two encounter each other during a balmy Napa Valley wine party, Avery confides in Taylor about her insecurities around flirting, and the two strike an agreement: Taylor will help Avery learn how to flirt. It makes for a good hobby considering Taylor just struck another deal with her best friend that she can refrain from sleeping with anyone all summer. But, of course, Taylor’s lessons work too well, leading the pair to sleep together, but Taylor’s playboy reputation means Avery’s not invested nor thinking about commitment…and suddenly Taylor really wants her to be.
Swooon spoke to Guillory about how post-pandemic social awkwardness inspired this novel, the misconceptions around extroverts, navigating big changes in friendships, and what makes truly good flirting.
This is your first queer novel. What inspired you to write your first queer romance?
Jasmine Guillory: It was something that I had wanted to write for a while. But my books got planned a little while out, so I couldn’t quite fit it in, especially with all the other characters that were also in my mind, and I knew what they wanted. Both Avery and Taylor were characters in Drunk on Love, and as soon as I wrote them on the page, I was like, okay, I got it now. I knew when I was writing that book that they were going to be my next book. And it was just really fun to write them and their story and to get to do something that I had wanted to do for a while.
I’m curious if you had to do any research into flirting. How did you start thinking about that concept in our culture and what it means to different people?
Guillory: I talked to a number of people about how that was one of the things that we missed during the pandemic, flirting with strangers, those gentle, early conversations you have with people that don’t necessarily mean anything. You’re just both chatting and having a good time and getting to know one another in a way that makes both of you smile. That was something that none of us got because we were inside. I was thinking about that, and then as we came out of that time, that was also something that people talked a lot about, like I don’t remember how to have conversations with people! We were all very awkward at our first events afterward. It’s like, oh, how do you talk to people again? And also, how to make friends. A few years ago, on my Instagram, I posted a friend matchmaking service. If you’re in this place and you’re looking for new friends, talk about what you like. I actually had a lot of people, and still have people years later, telling me they made new friends through that. I think those are things that people are craving right now but don’t necessarily quite know how to do.
Taylor’s guidelines for flirting include being open, making eye contact, etc. How did you come up with these rules? Do they feel tried and true?
Guillory: Some of them felt tried and true in nature and are things that I do when talking to people, partly to put them at ease and to put myself at ease. But also, they felt like things that Taylor would do and say. There are lots of people who would give different advice on flirting, but one of the key things that Taylor says, which is a very Taylor thing to say, is only flirt with people that you want to flirt with. Flirting is reciprocal, too. I thought about who Taylor was, and she’s a big flirt, so a lot of those things really played into the advice Taylor would give to Avery. And also, Taylor was thinking about Avery, and Avery wouldn’t flirt in the exact way that she would, so she was trying to be a little gentle.
Avery is in the early stages of exploring her queer identity and relationships with women. Why was it important to have her begin her flirting journey at a turning point with her queer identity?
Guillory: I think that was something that she’d always wanted but needed a little push to do, and partly relied on Taylor for that push. But then, she also had to acknowledge to herself that this is something that she wants. This is something that she’s always thought about and wanted to have more experience with, and I think that’s true for many people. A lot of people who have come out a little later in life were like, well, how do I do this now? I feel like there are things out there for people at certain ages, and then once you hit your late 20s, early 30s, it’s like you should have decided who you were already. I think a lot of people are still figuring out who they are at those ages, and that’s okay. I wanted Avery to be able to realize this community is here for her. That door is not closed. She can knock on the door, and someone will open it and say, “Oh, come in. Do you want to drink?” That’s the kind of experience that I wanted Avery to have.
Taylor falls into the “playboy” trope and struggles with how her reputation impacts how seriously people take her feelings. What were the misconceptions around being a flirt that you wanted to address?
Guillory: I think people often think that because you’re an extrovert, because you’re a flirt, because a lot of people like you, you can’t get your feelings hurt. That was something that I thought about a lot with regard to Taylor. [This idea that] I can say anything to you or say anything about you, and it’s fine, because you already know that you’re great, or you have such a high opinion of yourself. But that’s also not the case. People can and do get their feelings hurt. People have tender bits of them that they don’t let other people know. Sometimes, things that other people are tender about you aren’t, so they think you must not be tender about anything. With Taylor, she still gets her feelings hurt, just not in the ways that other people do or that other people would think about.
How do you decide on the sexual dynamic of the couple you’re writing about? How did you figure out what Taylor and Avery’s would be?
Guillory: For me, it is just really about the characters. Who these two people are and what their experience would be together. I knew that this book would be a slow burn, that they would be friends for a while before anything happened, romantically or sexually, between the two of them. But I knew, once it did happen, that first of all, in order for Taylor to stay involved in it, it would have to be good. And for Avery, she’s exploring new things. She’s excited about this. She can’t wait to tell other people about it, so I wanted it to have that fun, exciting, butterflies feeling for both of them, and also to be really enjoyable and exciting.
Rejection is difficult for everyone, but what makes romantic rejection so difficult for Avery? Does it impact Taylor in the same way?
Guillory: For Taylor, it’s partly because she’s dealt with that a bunch already early in life. She looks a lot different than Avery. She’s plus size. She has lived life recognizing that people are going to reject her and made her peace with it a while ago, whereas Avery has held herself off from that and is still very scared of it. There are a lot of people in both camps and then along the middle. For friendships and romantic relationships, rejection feels like a very personal thing, like you’re saying there’s something wrong with me. Even though logically, you can think they’re just saying that you’re not the right person for them, but it feels like someone else is saying there’s something wrong with me. And I think, to a certain extent, you need to just be able to do it enough times, to realize not everybody’s gonna like me, and that’s okay. I think that’s very hard for many people, especially women because we have been socialized to think everyone needs to like us in order to be a good person. It’s okay for people not to like you, and that’s really hard sometimes.
The story grapples with the transitional phases of friendships. We see it in Erica and Taylor’s friendship as Erica is beginning a family and Taylor isn’t, and in Avery’s desire to foster more friendships. Why was that something you wanted to touch on? Have you had any experience with what Avery or Taylor were navigating?
Guillory: I’ve had a lot of long-term friendships with other women where we have been at different stages in life. We met in high school or college when we were at the same stage, and then people move in different ways. They get married early and have kids, and then you’re not married with kids, and you’re thinking, do I still have a place in their life? That’s one thing that I wanted to explore. How do relationships and friendships evolve and change while you still love one another? Friendship is still something that takes work. You can still get your feelings hurt, even if you’ve known someone for 10, 15, 20 years. That’s something that I navigate in friendships all the time. Sometimes, you have to have hard conversations with friends, and it’s scary to have those hard conversations. With both Taylor and Erica throughout the book, they had resentment towards one another and needed to talk about it, and I really wanted them to go through their relationship changing. Do they still want to be friends? What do they love about one another? That’s something that’s really close to my heart.
What’s the most swoonworthy moment for you to write?
That’s easy. It’s the “Avery, now is when you kiss me” moment.
A perfect line! No details needed. What would you recommend to read along with Flirting Lessons?
Amy Spalding’s new book, On Her Terms. It’s funny because Amy is a good friend of mine, and we wrote our books at the exact same time, and then exchanged the books. Amy wrote about a lot of the same thing. I think that they are actually the perfect pair. Avery and Clementine would have so much to talk about.
